Dan and Dawn welcome Dara and Rara from the Pink Kink podcast to discuss the many peculiarities of the dom and sub roles, their experience with each and how easy it is for them to switch between them. Dara and Rara tell the tale of how they met over Harry Potter and tiaras, and discuss how male dominants don’t have to prove themselves like female dominants do. Rara shares the story about how someone she was topping came to regret not taking her seriously as a dom and by the time the scene was over she gave him his very first impact bruises. He now takes female dominants a little more seriously now.
Plus, Dan and Dawn talk about eating cheese from the milk of a… Chihuahua?
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Pink Kink on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/913559862721202/about
Rara’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theprincessrara/
Rara’s FetLife: https://fetlife.com/users/3168132?sp=1
Rara’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThePrincessRara/status/1368608587048751106
Dara’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/electro_kahleesi/
Dara’s FetLife: https://fetlife.com/users/5625812?sp=1
This week on Erotic Awakening, Pink Kink!
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Consider myself a male dom and you view yourself as a female sub.
As many other titles that we use, that’s certainly titles that we could say.
Yeah, that’s some of the labels.
Fortunately for us tonight, we have the podcast host from Pink Kink on the show tonight, Dara and Rara. And first off, thanks for being on the show, guys.
Oh, our pleasure. Thank you for inviting us.
Yeah, that’s great.
And you guys don’t have you guys don’t speak from the dynamic. I’ve listened to Pink Kink podcast, by the way. I love it when you guys argue about consent with each other, that’s fun. But also you guys don’t approach kink from the perspective of which, and I don’t want to say that it’s the heteronormative sort of view, but certainly when I go to an event, when I’m on FetLife, I feel like most of the interactions I see are unless I’m specifically going to a leather club or a leather bar or a leather based event, most of the events that we see most of the kink based, kink event based kink that we see is male dom fem sub. You guys don’t come from that perspective.
So is there a big difference other than the obvious physiological bits? Um, is there a big difference practicing a non in something that’s other than male dom femme sub?
Uh, yeah, and even Dara and I do things very differently because I’m not in a dynamic at all. I kink as a single woman, basically, having fun and playing with my friends.
And actually I am in a dynamic and I do have a daddy. So in that case, I am in that typical, uh, male dom female sub relationship. It’s just that, he’s the only one I do that with, to everybody else I’m top or dominant or whatever it is for that scene or that relationship.
So that’s the first question that I have to ask you is if you’re in that situation and solo being solo as well. That leads me to a lot of questions as well. You guys are going to be here for a while, but my first thought is that if, do you have situations where, and just do us, our listeners a favor the first time you answer say, this is Dara, this is Rara, so they can get a few for who’s voice is who. Do you have a situation where, okay, you, you you’re on a vet or something and people say, oh, there’s somebody, who’s a baby girl to their daddy. And now they think that there are, when daddy’s not there, they’re going to top. Well, they just don’t haven’t met the right guy. They’ll submit to me. Do you ever have that situation where somebody wants to, you know, they see that and they take it as a challenge?
Go for it, Ra.
Oh, Yeah. Yeah. So this is Rara and probably that happens to me I’m guessing more than Dara. Um, I am I say it all the time. I am physically little, so I don’t, I don’t physically come across as intimidating and tough. I’m laughing and giggling and smiling and just head to toe in pink if I’m dressed in anything at all. And so I come across, obviously as somebody who would probably look like your stereotypical submissive. So I do get a lot of guys who think, oh, well, I’ll get her to submit to me. And what they don’t realize is even though I love submitting, there are so few people in this world who I can look to as a dominant, because I am a very dominant personality myself. And so you have to out dominant me and that’s not easy.
And then, hi, I’m Dara. I, uh, I do the exact opposite. I am tall. I am statuesque. I wear the big chunky heels and the all black leather. Be it pants or a dress or black lace or whatever it is. Corset, the whole nine. I look like a dominatrix when I go to a party. So I’m intimidating as fuck.
Nice, I’m picturing both. This is really cool.
Very funny standing next to each other, actually.
Very different, which is very cool, though.
That does leave me just to jump off onto that for a moment. How did you guys meet and start interacting that you said, geez, we need a podcast.
We bonded over Harry Potter and tiaras.
Harry Potter and tiaras.
That classic one like everybody.
Not Harry Potter in a tiara, let’s just be clear its just they were separate. Uh, we were at a party that a mutual acquaintance, well, in my case, acquaintance and Rara’s case something else.
We could call him Voldemort.
Anyway, so we. We just kind of like, I saw her hair and it was like this beautiful red and it was down and flowing and I was like, I really want to braid your hair. And at this point I was exploring my littleness and Rara. You weren’t quite there yet either, were you? We were just kind of like both of us on the cusp of it?
No, I, I had identified as a middle already, but, um, I did what I always do at parties. I was dressed up and I had on a tiara.
No, no, no, you did not. Because I remember I was doing your hair. I actually pigtail French braided your hair. And you said, you know, it looked really good in my hair right now, a Tiara. And I was like, it would, and you went, I have some, and I was like, what? So you ran upstairs and got one tiara for you and one for me.
Yeah. I never go anywhere without my tiaras. You have to be prepared.
For a tiara emergency. Okay. Whatever. So Rara, you pretend, you are solo when you go to events or, and you identify you’re just solo period? Is that fair to say? Or do you have relationships as well outside?
I’m poly, I have currently one male partner who is a swinger. So he does not come with me typically to the BDSM events.
So, what is it, what is the experience of going, cause we have this, a lot of times people are like, I don’t want to go by myself, I’ll feel uncomfortable, I won’t know how to interact with anybody. When you go solo, what, what’s the key to be confident and be okay with doing that? And you mentioned that your fairly not tall, right? So you’re not going to walking.
Really short, you can say it.
He calls me short.
I don’t call you short, I just make fun of your cute little tyrannosaurus Rex arms when she tries to reach. Is it challenging to be, to attend events, to attend parties by yourself for you?
Okay for me, no. I am an extreme, Dara’s laughing. I am an extreme extrovert and there is not a shy bone in my body. In fact, the very first time I went to a public dungeon, I got naked and stayed that way. I’m just very comfortable. So my joke is always, I there’s no such thing as a stranger to me, you’re just a friend I haven’t met yet. And, uh, I don’t typically show up at a dungeon by myself because I’m also a huge planner. So before I go to a dungeon, I already know who’s going to be there and I have scenes already lined up and planned. Um, that’s, that’s just who I am. So I don’t know that that’s a fair question for me, because I really am at the extreme end of extrovert.
So to stop pestering you two with personal questions, going back to the top a little bit, just to step back and when you think about the way that the scene is currently, your interactions with the scene, and we certainly do have, again stepping out of gay culture, leather culture, it’s much, it’s a male dom fem sub in general. And I am speaking in general, right? Because when Dawn and I ran a place-based for five years and everybody shows up, it doesn’t matter what gender you identify as, you’ll find somebody else there. Oh, me too. But in general, it’s fair to say most people that are attending male dom fem sub. When you look at that, do you see anything wrong? Is that something that’s that we need to change? Or do you just say, well, that’s just the way things are.
You want to take that one first, Dara?
Yeah, that’s a tough one, actually.
I, I really, if this was a video podcast right now, our listeners would see you both looking at each other like, I don’t want that one first. You take that one first. I don’t want that one first.
No, I usually, I usually let Rara take it first, cause like again, extreme extrovert and I’m just like, okay, yeah. That’s like a really good point. I’m going to go with that one or no, she’s wrong.
Do you need me to go first? Cause I can. I, I was trying to be nice and share. You
You always have opinions. Um, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I just think that it needs to be a little more open and a little more exploratory. So like, if you identify as a dom, good for you. Okay, great. Don’t be afraid to also bottom or to, uh, sub I’ve had lots of people, doms let’s just say male dom. Say, I’m not going to do that, I don’t bottom. And I’m like, why the hell not? It’s not like I’m going to like peg you or something right here on my table. We’re at a party. I don’t have consent to do that. What’s, what’s the problem with just experiencing this sensation that I can give you and bottoming for it. And they’re like, huh? I never thought of it that way. Okay. I’ll do it. And then inevitably they enjoy whatever, but it is a mindset that could be altered a little bit. Yeah.
And from, from my perspective, what I see is male dominants don’t have to prove themselves like female dominants have to prove themselves. I know so many female dominants who just, they’re not taking seriously. I did a scene with a bottom, a male bottom. And I remember I lined up all my toys now, again, I’m five foot nothing. My color is pink, so my toys are all pink. And he looked at little me in this pile of toys and he kind of laughed. And I said, do you want me to use my cuffs to tie you to the St Andrew’s cross? He said, oh, no, that’s not necessary. I’ll just hold on. Well, he came to regret that attitude by the time the scene was over and I gave him his very first impact bruises, and he takes, he takes female dominants a little more seriously now, and he knows toys can be pink and still hurt like hell.
So I’m kind of curious in that, um, what I’ve seen we’ve, we’ve been doing this for like 20 years. And what I’ve seen with the way the scene has changed over the years is that when we first got into it, for the most part, we were in the leather community. Cause that’s what was available around Columbus, Ohio was the leather community. And it was very much of not too many switches, right? So it was very much, you pick a side and that was your side. Or you started out as a submissive and worked up to being a dominant, right? So it was that whole traditional stuff and over probably the last 15 years, 14, 15 years in our area, slowly, slowly it’s been more accepted for switches to be playing, right? So at the beginning it was, if you were a dominant and you wanted to switch, you had to change towns so that people didn’t know that you switched, right? And then it started changing in our area. We got some more leaders that were more just sex positive and, you know, and mixing it all up and everything. And it was really cool. And now with the space that we had, it seems like it is really starting to shift of people just wanting to be sex positive, kink positive, play, have fun, stop assigning a labels or having more than one label or something like that. I mean, have you seen that sort of, I don’t know how long you guys have been in the scene, but have you seen that sort of scenario or something else?
So I’ve been in the scene for going on 18 years now. And, um, I started out a hell of a lot earlier than Rara did, but I did start out as a dom cause that’s where I was comfortable. And then I learned from there and I learned, and I learned, and then it wasn’t until probably five years ago, maybe that I started exploring the sub side. And now I identify as a switch only because I will bottom or sub for one person, I’ll, I’ll bottom for a few people, but only sub to the one person. I’m still mostly dominant, but I don’t like having, like you said, that label, I don’t like having just that one single label on me. I like to be able to explore. I like to be able to experiment when I damn well choose to.
And I’ve been in the lifestyle for six years. I started as a submissive, but again, I’m such a dominant personality outside of the dynamic that after about two years of being submissive, it was kind of very natural for me to start trying the other side. And at the time I had a girlfriend who was a professional dominant and I would watch her do things and how she interacted. And I, so I watched and I learned and I first started off topping. I said, oh, let me try topping. I have all these toys. Let me learn how to do it and try that. And then I said, all right, I think I want to try domming now. It’s, it’s very natural for me to dom. I mean, ask Dara I do it to her, I try to do it to her all the time.
I’d tell you to shut the hell up.
Exactly. But I just naturally am, am so dominant. And I feel like at least in the six years that I’ve been involved, at least our circle, it might be different than other places, but in our circle, we seem to have a lot of switches. But dark, even within switching, Dara and I do it differently. I don’t switch with a, with a person or a scene once I’m a top to somebody I’m a top. And once I’m a bottom to somebody, I’m a bottom, I don’t typically switch at all. I do have one top who let me top her and it felt weird and awkward. Um, so cause I just don’t actually do that while Dara has switched within a scene. I can’t.
I did. That one was actually really fun. It was, uh, two women, one man, and we were all switches and we were like, okay, how can we do this? And have everybody, you know, try a different role. And we came up with, um, the other woman said that she could bottom first. Uh, because once she went to top space, she couldn’t come back from it. The man said that he would, uh, bottom last, because once he went into subspace, there was no coming back from that and I’m like, okay, cool. I’ll just be the sandwich in the middle. And I will switch and forth. And I had no problem doing that. I do it with my daddy. I can do it in the middle of a scene. I can just bottom, top and back again.
And it’s, it’s a lot of fun. I got to tell you.
Very cool. Very cool.
I get a lot out of it.
Well, Rara, Dara. Thanks for being on the show tonight and telling us a little bit about Pink Kink, uh, and about yourselves. Actually, we talked more about yourselves in a particular topic, which that works fine for me. Prior to you guys leaving though, we have a couple more things to talk about and actually have some other questions for you on some of our other topics that are coming out, coming up before we move onto that though tell people where they can find the Pink Kink podcast.
You can find at pinkkinkpodcast.com and we’re pretty much on every podcast app, Apple, Google, Stitcher, um, Spotify, you name it. We’re also on Instagram. We have a Facebook group, we’re on Twitter. We’re on TikTOK. If there’s social media we’re there.
I was going to say, who does your social media? Is it one of you guys?
You do a fantastic job of it. Your Instagram is…
Dara wants nothing to do with it. It’s all mine.
Nope. I told her, I was like, you want to do social media? That’s you, go! I’m like lucky if I post on Facebook once a week.
I get it, but you’re doing a great job with that. All right. Hang out uncomfortably with us for a couple minutes while we get through the rest of this stuff.
So, um, we have some upcoming events I’ve actually planned out the rest of the year. So a couple of days ago, I planned out our Zoom calls, our live podcast and my energy workshops and all that type of stuff. If you want to keep up with everything that we are doing with classes, books, we’ve got some news on that coming out soon discounts and everything else, you can do that via the Erotic Awakening newsletter, which I should be working on in the next couple of days for October.
And we’ll get your awesome EA shout out like Lynn from Ohio.
Alpha Wolf from Texas.
Troy from Michigan.
TL Wade from Pennsylvania.
And Liz from our old hometown of Columbus, Ohio.
I bet you we know Liz more than likely. So head over to eroticawakening.com and subscribe today.
So Dawn, as you know, and other listeners know that we are currently doing the RV lifestyle. We have left our previous home of Columbus, Ohio. We are currently in the Kentucky. And the nice thing about that is a couple of weeks ago, we had dinner with podcast listener John, and then more recently we had dinner with Michael and Poppy at a super awesome cool restaurant.
It was a Mexican barbecue restaurant in a converted Catholic church and it was amazing. They had sugar skull paintings all over the place and it was, it was phenomenal. I have pictures.
Not only was it phenomenal, but the food was actually equal to the setting. The only thing I didn’t understand was one of the, um, one of the plates included something called Chihuahua cheese, and I just don’t know what that is.
And I’m afraid to ask.
I took a picture of it today. I was actually in the grocery store. They had chihuahua cheese. I’ve never seen it before. I got a picture for you.
I had goat cheese the other day, because you can milk a goat, right? Cows?
No, no, no. You can not milk a Chihuahua.
Is that not where you get chihuahua cheese?
No, no. No chihuahua cheese.
You can have yak cheese.
That is true. That is true. But I just can’t imagine. It’s just little itty-bitty teets. That’d be a lot of work for a bowl of cheese.
I’ve got such a mental image now.
Uh, Dawn, a couple of weeks ago we were talking about cheating on the podcast and I wanted to come back to that for just a moment. Uh, just to say that one of the challenges is you have to have that conversation to start with what is cheating, right?
One of the things, when people talk about cheating. In general, they’re thinking about a spouse going off and having the intercourse with somebody who’s not the spouse. Here in polyamory land of course, it’s way more complex to that. You’ve had, by that definition, you’ve cheated on me far, many, many times, but of course that’s not our definition.
No. And like I said, we actually, I think I mentioned this on the podcast was that I actually had to explain this to one of my sons. So, because he’s like, I don’t know why he was concerned, but he’s like, mom, is there any reason that you would actually leave Dan? And I’m like, oh yeah, there’s two reasons. And one of them is cheating and he’s like, what? You guys are poly, you cheat all the time. I’m like, oh, we need to sit down and have a conversation because that is not cheating. Dan knows everything I do. I know everything he does. You know, not fine details of when we’re with, you know, in the bedroom with someone else. But he knows who I’m with, who I’m chatting with and everything like that. So that’s not considered cheating to us.
And for some people cheating is, uh, kissing another girl, looking at porn, flirting or…
Holy cow! You’ve been cheating daily, you flirt!
You’re not wrong! So I’m going to go back to our, uh, our hosts of the Pink Kink podcast and say, just, you know, for each of you, what is in your current, and, and have fun with this Rara, um, in your current world, in your current dynamic, what is cheating? And he got to keep it the simple version for you.
Simple version. Yeah.
With the current partner that I have, the only rule that we have is about fluid bonding. We are, we are fluid bonded. And our rule is we are not allowed to fluid bond with absolutely anybody else. It is just us two. So in our case, cheating would be if I found out he had sex with another woman and didn’t wear a condom.
So by that definition, if I understand it correctly, if you and I met at a party, we decided, whoa, we were digging the Pink thing. Cause I wore my pink t-shirt, we made out, we had sex with a condom, the fact that you didn’t mention that to your, your other partner. Maybe you mentioned the two of them a couple of months later. That’s not cheating?
Correct. Now, remember he also, he comes from the swinger side. So he and I have been to swinger parties together and he’s, he’s walked into a room where I was having sex with somebody and he just watched, he was totally okay with it. As long as we used a condom he was fine.
Okay, thank you, Dara. You want to take a shot at this?
So my relationship with my daddy, who’s also my husband. We call ourselves monogamish. So there’s like a little wiggle room in there, but we’re mostly monogamous. And the wiggle room, I guess, is we have play partners.
We’re allowed to do stuff with other people. Um, I am a crow for goodness sake. So I have naked men in my basement all the time that are working on. And I’ve had, he’s, he’s literally walked in the house where I’ve had a, um, a sub, a male sub, and I’m doing stuff with him. And my husband has walked in, takes a look at us and he’s like, you guys having fun? And we’re both like, yeah. And he goes, all right, have fun. And like closes the door. Uh, we have not had sex with anybody else, like full on actual sex sex, I guess. I dunno what you would call it, like your heteronormative, whatever sex,
PIV. Because they’ve had oral sex.
Well, he has.
Yes, I know. And if you want to know how I know…
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
That was Rara’s birthday gifts to him, I think a couple of years ago.
I just want to mention my birthday’s coming up. Just throwing it out there. Anyway,
As long as I get to watch.
Well, I didn’t know your husband was into that, but why not? Let’s try it.
Oh, with you? Probably not, but you know.
Alright, we had mixed signals so let’s keep going.
Well, no, I mean, my thing is if I get to watch it’s cool.
Okay. I’m down with that too so there you go. Uh, Dawn recently we had some, uh, recently we had someone reach out to us and say they just started listening to the podcast. They started with the oldest ones…
I’m sorry. It does get better.
You’re going to have to go back and listen to some of our older shows. Maybe it’s not as bad as you remember.
I remember being very stoic. So I remember my side of it. Not actually listening to it as if I was a listener. I remember not wanting to interrupt you. You talked, talked talked.
Yeah, I miss those days.
I bet you do.
Uh, anyway, this listener wrote in and said that the you or Dawn recently we’re talking about your bucket list. It made them think about their own bucket list and, uh, totally spontaneously last night they write, they ended up at a campground. It was pitch black, the stars were out and they got fucked on a picnic bench.
Woohoo! Which is, uh, I try to tell people that yes, fucking on a picnic table is on my bucket list. Not because I haven’t done it because I want to do it a lot more and that way, I make a point to do it. So fucking on a picnic table is the bomb.
Well the point is once you do something on the bucket list, you don’t cross it off. You just move it to the bottom so it works its way back up again.
That works. I can absolutely do that. Though, I am not waiting to get to the bottom. If I come across the picnic table and to Dan.
Fair. Speaking of which on an upcoming show, we’re going to have to, Dawn, you’re going to have to interview me to see what’s on my bucket list.
We’ve done that before, but it’s been a long time ago.
Well, maybe I’ll just go back and listen to my own…
You didn’t have much. I can remember one thing. It is about hooking up with someone who you don’t know and don’t know their name and don’t want to know their name and just, yeah. But we’re not, we’re not really good swingers. So it doesn’t work well to just go into a swing club, right. And pick up someone that you don’t know their names. So it’s gotta be a different sort of scenario sort of thing.
I think that is the only scenario where I can pick somebody up to have sex with who I don’t know their name, though.
No, you can do it at a kink event, which is slightly different. Slightly different.
Slightly different. Nope. That’s that’s legit.
So cool. So yeah, we could do that. I could interview you about your bucket list.
I just keep looking at the clock. I know the time of my still going to kink. Well, fuck. If COVID ever ends I’ll get to go to kink events.
If COVID ever ends, man. I got a lot of shit on my list. It’s going to be done in a couple of weeks before it comes back.
Question, though, if you know their name, but you forget it. Does that count?
Oh, you have to wait till you’re just a little bit older.
I do not have to wait till I’m a little bit older. I forgotten many names. Uh, well, I guess that’s kind of. It’s a little rude.
Hey, how about if I prep them for you and go, you know, Dan’s going to pretend to forget your name. This is his kink.
But it would be my luck that I ended up having sex with who I think is a random stranger. Then afterwards they’re like, oh, that was much better than the first time. I was like, fuck. I don’t remember the first time at all! Uh, recently via the Instagram, shingle sent us a sticker of “We sleep around.”
Right. So it’s kind of like our tire cover. So, but it’s a sticker that we can put on our slide with our other stickers. We’re going to have some stickers. If anybody looks at our stickers, man, they’re going to go whaaaat? We have leather pride and M/s. M/s. Flag and all kinds of stuff. So. That’d be awesome.
It will be interesting. You haven’t met many of our fellow RV enthusiast. Take a moment to support the podcast. Rep, rate us on Apple podcast. I won’t say rat us on Apple podcasts. I don’t know if that means, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify or wherever you listen.
Or just tell your friends.
Feel free to reach out to us.
We love interactions on Instagram. We get a lot of, uh, um, messages on there. Instagram, Discord, we have our Discord channel, Twitter, uh, Facebook, FetLife, all the places. So just reach out and say hi.
Or contact us directly via email whether you have questions, podcasts, comments or, you just want to reach out and say, fuck off! You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about! Because we don’t get enough of those emails. firstname.lastname@example.org
Bye Dawn. Bye Pink Kink!
Pink Kink [00:30:29]